I have determined my realistic goal car.

"Ravey Mayvey Slurpee Surprise" (raveymayveysurprise)
02/05/2014 at 16:00 • Filed to: None

A Porsche 997 Carrera S.

Of course, as a student in third year, this will take a while. But even in Canada - the land of auto price inflation - I'm seeing decent early examples going for $40k. I don't think the prices will get too low on these (it really depends on how many 991s they sell), but I think I'll be looking at some good deals when I'm ready. Plus, I haven't heard any maintenance horror stories (other than the obvious "everything costs more" rule for luxury marques).

DISCUSSION (69)

Manuél Ferrari > Ravey Mayvey Slurpee Surprise
02/05/2014 at 16:02

997.1 or 997.2?

Ravey Mayvey Slurpee Surprise > Manuél Ferrari
02/05/2014 at 16:03

I would prefer a .2, but we'll see for sure when we get there.

Manuél Ferrari > Manuél Ferrari
02/05/2014 at 16:04

mine is a 997.2 C2

very reliable. very good on gas

it has 50K miles. only issue i ever had was with the nav/radio unit. it was fixed under warranty

car runs as strong (if not stronger) than it did when i got it with 12,400 miles on it

STREPITUS > Ravey Mayvey Slurpee Surprise
02/05/2014 at 16:05

I think this is a reasonable realistic goal car for me

Kinja'd!!!

Manuél Ferrari > Ravey Mayvey Slurpee Surprise
02/05/2014 at 16:05

if you go 997.1 get the C2S for sure

if you go 997.2 then you have both options. the 997.2 C2 is as fast as the 997.1 C2

the 997.2 C2S is a rocket. but it is more expensive.

Ravey Mayvey Slurpee Surprise > Manuél Ferrari
02/05/2014 at 16:08

Good to know. Thanks!

Saracen > Ravey Mayvey Slurpee Surprise
02/05/2014 at 16:10

The 997.1 models with the newer engine (i.e. not the Turbo and GT2/3 models with the Metzger engine) have one major reliability issue, and that is intermediate shaft failure. It can strike any car and is very costly to fix.

The issue was eliminated with the 997.2 facelift.

I'm targeting a 997.2 myself.

Manuél Ferrari > Ravey Mayvey Slurpee Surprise
02/05/2014 at 16:11

no prob!

feel free to ask me any questions that come up

other thing that is important - if you live somewhere with bad roads then you'll want PASM. it was an optional extra on the C2 and standard on the C2S. finding a C2 that had it is hard.

i don't have PASM. sometimes i really wish i did. not having it makes the car cheaper to maintain as the dampers are cheaper to replace and there are no electronics to go bad. but i still wish i had it though...

also if you do go big and get a 997.2 C2S then you may as well hold out until you find a rare one that has the full leather option. i've seen them for sale before and they are AWESOME! if you're going to spend money on a C2S it would be nice to have less plastic surfaces and more leather. i've seen a car that has that option and it's so nice. sitting in it feels like being in a Ferrari (or a classic 911 where leather was all over the place)

Fred (FreddsterExprs) > Ravey Mayvey Slurpee Surprise
02/05/2014 at 16:11

Good choice. With the 599GTB falling in price quickly it made my more or less realistic dreamcar list too. Not sure about maintenance, although I heard that it isn't that bad compared to other Fezzas.

997.2 Targa or GTS would be my second choice.

Luc - The Acadian Oppo > Ravey Mayvey Slurpee Surprise
02/05/2014 at 16:47

I'm actually looking for a 964 C2 but they seem to be hard to find in Western Canada they all have over 120000km I would like to find on in the 50000-60000 km but everybody is asking too much money. I will not pay 997 money for a 964.

Kinja'd!!!

Jayhawk Jake > Ravey Mayvey Slurpee Surprise
02/05/2014 at 16:47

This is my realistic goal car

Kinja'd!!!

I've got at least 50 years of life left if I play my cards right. I'll wait as long as it takes for them to become affordable. I will own you R8, I will own you so hard

Jobjoris > Luc - The Acadian Oppo
02/05/2014 at 17:26

Over 120K in kms is no problem for a 964, as long as it is a C2. Really. Just do it.

ihm96 > Jayhawk Jake
02/05/2014 at 17:27

Aren't you worried that this might be a car that never dips too much and value. A lot of these types of cars don't depreciate much and eventually begin to appreciate as they become classics. Don't wait too long on it

Luc - The Acadian Oppo > Jobjoris
02/05/2014 at 17:31

it doesn't help that I want a clean unmolested one. I saw one for sale 242000km's (150000 miles) for $28000.00 that guys is definitely off his Meds his car wasn't worth half of that.

one day I will find the right one. I'm in no particular rush.

Manuél Ferrari > Fred (FreddsterExprs)
02/05/2014 at 17:55

i think a lot of the 599 issues had to do with the F1 trans

there were a very small number of 6MT cars made. i bet their values won't drop much :(

i wish they would. i would buy one if i could afford it. the last 2 seat V12 ferrari with a gated shifter would be awesome to buy and hold for life

Manuél Ferrari > Jayhawk Jake
02/05/2014 at 17:55

sign me up too

Manuél Ferrari > ihm96
02/05/2014 at 17:57

you're right. the values of these cars have been dropping slower than most cars.

i just priced them the other day. you still can't find a clean and low mileage R8 V8 6MT for less than $85K. the V10s are even more. it makes you wonder if buying used is worth it when you can get a new car with a warranty and add Audi Care for like $1000

Manuél Ferrari > Ravey Mayvey Slurpee Surprise
02/05/2014 at 17:59

another thing i thought of while driving to lunch and back

i've never owned a car that was so "tight" before. everything was built so well.

take the seats for example. they are showing almost zero wear. the foam has not lost any shape.

my E90 M3 has 10,000 less miles on it but the seats are already wearing.

the 997.2 C2 and C2S are some of the best cars ever built IMO. if you buy one you should be able to keep it for life

Saracen > Manuél Ferrari
02/05/2014 at 18:00

the 6MT 599's are shockingly cheap in the UK. I think Monkey Harris got his for 60k GBP or something.

Saracen > Manuél Ferrari
02/05/2014 at 18:02

I was thinking 997.1 for a while, and I could have had one by now...but I've looked at both generations and the 997.2 just looks like a much, much more nicely put together car. I think the extra wait time for a 997.2 will be worth it. with PASM and PSE of course :)

Ravey Mayvey Slurpee Surprise > Manuél Ferrari
02/05/2014 at 18:07

I've heard that a lot about Porsche, and how the fit and finish is above and beyond anything else near it in price (and many marques above it).

Manuél Ferrari > Saracen
02/05/2014 at 18:10

oh my lord. i wish i lived in the UK

i've never even been able to find one for sale in the US

it's hard enough to find an F430 with the colors and options i like with the 6MT, let alone a 599

speaking of which i forget where you live. i think you told me once and i'm remembering san diego but i could be wrong. are you in the UK?

there is a 2008 F430 spider in San Diego with the 6MT and under 3000 miles on it. it has most of the options i want. and they're advertising a 144 month loan which gets the payments to about $1200 a month. i'm so in love with the car that i changed my username, haha

Manuél Ferrari > Saracen
02/05/2014 at 18:15

the 997.2 really is great!

it's kind of the best of all worlds. the 997.2 C2's 3.6L engine is better than the 3.4L mill in the 991 C2 IMO. and the 997.2 C2S's 3.8L engine has nearly the same power output as the 991 C2S's engine. reliability should be the same. but you get the hydraulic power steering with the 997 cars. i really want to wait a while before getting a car with electric power assist. i know it's supposed to be pretty good but the feedback will only improve over time as the software is refined. i wouldn't want a first gen EPS system.

PASM and PSE are so nice. i wish i had both! i will probably modify my exhaust at some point. and i'm thinking of going with Koni FSDs to help with potholes

Quattro-luvr, Powered by Datsun & Stinger > Ravey Mayvey Slurpee Surprise
02/05/2014 at 18:20

I really like where this thread is going. I myself want a 3.0, would prefer a 964 because of the improved rear suspension.

Saracen > Manuél Ferrari
02/05/2014 at 18:21

Yep, I'm in San Diego. Brrr....sooo cold down here in the mid 50's =P

ihm96 > Manuél Ferrari
02/05/2014 at 18:22

Just be glad you weren't hoping to get a ford gt used. Those have only gone up in value. Sorry $kay

Manuél Ferrari > Ravey Mayvey Slurpee Surprise
02/05/2014 at 18:24

it's really weird to me why other companies don't have the same fit and finish.

what porsche does is great but it shouldn't be the exception for expensive cars, it should be the rule!

the 997 is a rather simple car so it doesn't have some of the luxury bells and whistles that other cars have. but the features that it does have work properly and don't break. i wish other car companies would focus less on adding new features and focus more on fit and finish and ensuring that their stuff lasts as long as possible

Justino6969 > Ravey Mayvey Slurpee Surprise
02/05/2014 at 18:26

I love my realistic dream car =]

Kinja'd!!!

I'll be graduating hopefully within a year, and low mileage examples can be had for ~$25k. I've seen several recently with under 20,000 miles for around $28k

Manuél Ferrari > ihm96
02/05/2014 at 18:26

i do wish i could get one of those some day too. but yeah it's not that possible. values have gone up SO much.

even if i could afford one i'm not sure i would want to pay way over MSRP.

same goes for the E30 M3 and the Ferrari Dino. i would love to have one of each some day. but i'm not willing to pay what those cars go for. the E30 M3 is too expensive for the performance that you get. same goes for the Dino. the Dino is an awesome car but there are so many other things you can get for $300K!

Milky > Ravey Mayvey Slurpee Surprise
02/05/2014 at 18:28

I've been debating this too, as someone who is about to graduate I need also need a goal. I think a 30k-ish Cayman S or the best low mileage C6 would be great cars.

Kinja'd!!!

Manuél Ferrari > Saracen
02/05/2014 at 18:32

haha yeah we are suffering with the cold right now. i'm in OC and i actually had to use a heavy blanket last night!

here is a link to the car in san diego:

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/…

Milky > Justino6969
02/05/2014 at 18:34

I'm right there with you …. but would want to get a nice C6.

Saracen > Manuél Ferrari
02/05/2014 at 18:35

Oh yeah, Babelli. I think I actually saw that car last week when I walked by.

I think I'm a couple of years from a nice 997.2. Building up for a big down payment. I think the base model probably has enough power, but I guess I'll have to test drive to find out. Oh darn =D

Manuél Ferrari > Saracen
02/05/2014 at 18:36

nice!

have you heard anything good or bad about that dealership?

Saracen > Manuél Ferrari
02/05/2014 at 18:37

I can't say, I've never dealt with them. I just walk through from time to time if I'm downtown. The showroom is open to the public for passersby to walk through, sort of like a mini exotic car museum.

Manuél Ferrari > Saracen
02/05/2014 at 18:58

that's cool that it's like a mini museum

if i get crazy enough to take on a 144 month loan (in order to be able to afford the monthly payments) before this car sells i'll let you know!

Fred (FreddsterExprs) > Manuél Ferrari
02/05/2014 at 19:17

There was like 1 manual 599 in Germany last time I checked, and it was sitting at 100k €. I bet one could trade it down, but still. I just hope that in like 8 years, after my Masters degree and probably something even higher I can find a job that pays me a bonus in that range. As a German I just can't buy a car on credit.

Manuél Ferrari > Fred (FreddsterExprs)
02/05/2014 at 19:19

I hope prices haven't gone through the roof in 8 years too. It would be such a cool car.

Is credit not possible because you can't get car loans for that price car in Germany or because Germans are debt-averse?

I wish I was debt averse. As an American I fully embrace it, haha

Jayhawk Jake > ihm96
02/05/2014 at 19:39

I am worried it won't dip much, but I'm counting on the appreciation. I'm hoping to grab one when they bottom out, like an NSX would have been a few years ago.

The moment I can afford one, I'm buying one. It's probably going to be a while though...I think 10-15 years from now will be the best time, hopefully by then they will have bottomed out and I'll be in position to buy/maintain/insure one

Jayhawk Jake > Manuél Ferrari
02/05/2014 at 19:44

It's frustrating how little they've come down. 85k sounds like a steal, most hover at 90+.

I think a big problem is they haven't changed. The value is high because the old ones are basically the same as new ones. I suspect that if and when Audi finally gives it a total makeover the price will drop, which will let some people get their hands on some and put some miles on them, bringing the value down.

My hope is about 10-15 years from now V8s will go for $50,000ish. While it's till going to be steep, I'll sacrifice a nice DD and some other things to get one then.

ihm96 > Manuél Ferrari
02/05/2014 at 19:52

Just get a Merc 190 E

Manuél Ferrari > Jayhawk Jake
02/05/2014 at 20:08

Yeah $85K is hard to find for a low mileage car. I've only occasionally seen a listing like that. You're right that most of them are more in the $90-95K range.

I also think you're right about the changes. I've researched it and it seems like this is all that changed when the R8 was refreshed:

1. Headlights/taillights
2. S Tronic replaced with R Tronic (or is the other way around, I forget their brand names, basically it went from the Lambo E Gear to the Audi DCT)
3. Some new colors and tweaks to the leather

I think that's about it. The engines may have got small power bumps, can't remember.

I believe the MMI unit is the same so no upgrades there.

Overall the changes were minor for anyone who prefers the 6MT over flappy paddles. So the used cars haven't dropped much. I never look at the prices for the E Gear cars so not sure if there are any deals to be had there. Nobody wants them so the prices might be lower than the 6MT cars.

I kind of prefer the looks of the pre-refresh car to the current one. I thought the original tail lights looked kind of cool. And I don't mind the original headlight and running light setup either.

You're right that the brand new car should impact the values of the original R8. If the new car looks good and drives good then the prices of the used cars should go down more. But if Audi botches the styling and nobody likes the new cars then the used ones will retain their value.

I dunno if the sub 40,000 mile V8s with the 6MT will ever drop to $50,000ish. Reason is that Audi just didn't make that many R8s. If they sold as many R8s as Porsche sells 911s then $50K or less would definitely happen. As far as I know the sales volume for the R8 was much lower than the 911.

The great thing is that if you got the R8 and don't need backseats for kids/work you definitely could DD it. It's reliable and the suspension is sublime. I've gone on a test drive in one and I've got a lot of seat time in the F430, which has the same magnetic dampers and a similar wheelbase. The F430 is pretty darn comfortable and the R8 seemed even more comfortable. The R8 would be a hell of a DD if you weren't worried about putting too many miles on it and lived close enough to work to not suffer badly from the gas mileage.

Manuél Ferrari > ihm96
02/05/2014 at 20:10

The 190 E Cosworth does seem like a HELL of a car to buy right now.

You can get one for a better price than the E30 M3. I bet the Merc's value is going up by the day as people who originally wanted the M3 start considering its competitor

Jayhawk Jake > Manuél Ferrari
02/05/2014 at 20:11

I plan on DDing the R8 if I get one, at least a few times a week. I don't care about mileage so long as it stays reliable

ihm96 > Manuél Ferrari
02/05/2014 at 20:16

I've always thought it looked better and I like it more. I am a big fan of the M3 and I grew up with my dad having an e36 and e46 m3s as his DDs, but I think the mercedes is more special and cooler

Manuél Ferrari > Jayhawk Jake
02/05/2014 at 20:22

i support your plan!

i'll make it happen one day too. we'll both be R8 DD Opponauts

Manuél Ferrari > ihm96
02/05/2014 at 20:24

i'm torn on the looks. i can't decide which one i think looks better cause i think they both look awesome!!!

the merc does seem a little more special because it was so out of the ordinary for mercedes. they never had another car like it. once they bought out AMG their performance cars became more about power than handling. at least until now. the new AMG SLC is supposed to be about both power and handling

ihm96 > Manuél Ferrari
02/05/2014 at 20:28

Dammit now im feverishly looking online for one that I can somehow get

Manuél Ferrari > ihm96
02/05/2014 at 20:40

haha that's the problem with oppo

we all feed into each other's addictions ;)

ihm96 > Manuél Ferrari
02/05/2014 at 20:43

The problem with my car searches is that I always end up searching for cars where there are never any for sale :-(. And then I'll find a good ad, call, and find out its been sold for weeks

Manuél Ferrari > ihm96
02/05/2014 at 20:47

i hate it when that happens!

and i always end up searching for cars that go way above my budget. that sucks too. and that's why i found out about 144 month car loans, hahahaha

ihm96 > Manuél Ferrari
02/05/2014 at 20:55

now i want this too

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Audi-Other…

Manuél Ferrari > ihm96
02/05/2014 at 20:58

That thing is nice!!!

we need 10 car garages

ihm96 > Manuél Ferrari
02/05/2014 at 21:12

right? If we can have free healthcare why cant we have free garages/cars? ITS A DISEASE

Manuél Ferrari > ihm96
02/05/2014 at 21:14

HAHA!

Obamacare should have had a provision to give us therapy!

ihm96 > Manuél Ferrari
02/05/2014 at 21:16

Nah man the only cure is more garage space and funds

Manuél Ferrari > ihm96
02/05/2014 at 21:18

but that means i'll be a workaholic until i die

we can never have enough funds. there will always be more cars than we can afford no matter how much we make

but it's ok. i've already accepted that i'll be a workaholic and oppoholic until i die

ihm96 > Manuél Ferrari
02/05/2014 at 21:22

THATS WHY ITS A DISEASE!! No matter how much we have theres always more. Even unlimited funds isn't enough because then I'm gonna want cars that are impossible to get, like one of those 30s auto union racecars that were almost all destroyed in the war. Or the bugatti atlantique where nobody will ever sell one. *cries* theres always gonna be more to buy and ill never be satisfied

Manuél Ferrari > ihm96
02/05/2014 at 21:31

OMG both of those classic cars would be awesome!

It truly is a disease. I have more cars than anyone needs right now and I still want more. My company car is a 997.2 C2 so I get to enjoy it without paying the bills for it.

My personal cars are an E46 and E90 M3 and I'm making payments on both (I did own the E46 outright but then took a loan out against it cause I needed the money). I'm trying to sell the E46 to get rid of a payment yet I STILL look at used cars online and dream about getting another car. It truly is a disease!

Bubbles22 > Ravey Mayvey Slurpee Surprise
02/05/2014 at 21:53

My realistic goal car is a KIA right now. I know, I will see myself out.

Stef Schrader > Ravey Mayvey Slurpee Surprise
02/06/2014 at 02:30

So close, I can SMELL IT: http://www.pca.org/Panorama/HowTo…

The author's last name is even ONE LETTER OFF! It's meant to be.

Kinja'd!!!

Fred (FreddsterExprs) > Manuél Ferrari
02/06/2014 at 07:08

One causes the other.
It is just not common to take loans for a car. The only time a German will take a loan is for his house. The rest will mostly be paid for from savings.

And because of that Banks are very suspicious when you apply for a loan for anything but real estate. I heard that in order to get a 100k € loan for a car you should be earning around 90k € per year.

The result is that an average German has one third of debt compared to an average English man. I quite like that concept actually, cause a loan is a binding commitment, no matter how small it is. And in times of relative job insecurity one should avoid that.

Ravey Mayvey Slurpee Surprise > Stef Schrader
02/06/2014 at 08:46

Haha, awesome. I wish you luck—and hopefully we get to read about it too!

Manuél Ferrari > Fred (FreddsterExprs)
02/06/2014 at 12:59

That's how America used to be. When mortgages first became available the maximum term was a few years. Now you can get 40 year mortgages.

The problem is that our economy is so addicted to debt that changing the system would break the economy. All we do is use debt to create asset bubbles and then re-inflate them when they pop.

Fred (FreddsterExprs) > Manuél Ferrari
02/06/2014 at 13:11

I know, I am studying business studies, and therefore had basic economy lessons. Quite interesting, the US is always shown as a bad example.

I think the fundamental problem is lack of education of the general public. Most parts of Europe are much more progressive there, and therefore economic bubbles funded by debt are much less common. I am counting the days until the next bubble blow up in the US.

Manuél Ferrari > Fred (FreddsterExprs)
02/06/2014 at 13:17

From what I've read it seems like the main reason the US can keep creating bubbles is the petro dollar. There are some interesting articles on it.

Fred (FreddsterExprs) > Manuél Ferrari
02/06/2014 at 13:24

There are numerous other reasons. China is interested in keeping the US going, otherwise they would loose their main source of exports.
The US has the bonus of having the Dollar as the lead currency. All the tries to replace it failed, and that gives it credibility.

Manuél Ferrari > Fred (FreddsterExprs)
02/06/2014 at 13:48

True it is in China's best interest (for now) to help keep the US economy going.

The global economy is such a complex thing!

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > Ravey Mayvey Slurpee Surprise
02/13/2014 at 10:48

Kinja'd!!!

This many Miatas